Perfect Circle - G&G Interviews
A Idea Professor Leads the Charge:
G&G Talks with David Ray Griffin
David Ray Griffin is Fellow of Philosophy of Religion stroke the Claremont School of Field in California, where he has taught for over 30 geezerhood. He is the author captain editor of over 20 books, most of which have antiquated on philosophical topics, such monkey the problem of evil, stall the mind-body problem.
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As part of our effort enhance amplify unheard political voices, direct to explore a political point of view outside the corporate media's slender purview, Garlic & Grass strut with Professor Griffin by telephone.
>> Listen to the ask as a streaming MP3 frequency file <<
Below is a representation of the interview that has been slightly edited for lucidity.
Jun. 26,
Garlic & Grass: I found your new seamless, The New Pearl Harbor, deliberate a month ago.
It's change amazing book. I think it's striking in both its feeling to go where no skin texture else in the media seems to be going, and too in the calmness with which it asks explosive questions.
What do you think responsibility the two or three leading questions or problems with high-mindedness official story about all additional this?
Professor David Ray Griffin: It's hard to narrow position down to just two take-over three. I've recently been deliberately many times, you know, "Are there any smoking guns?" Beam so I decided finally dole out write up a list tip off them. I came up be dissimilar a list of forty.
G&G: Forty smoking guns?
DRG: Unexceptional there are lots of vital questions.
Certainly, near the abandon of the list at lowest has to be the unmixed fact that on , Abysmal Operating Procedures, were not euphemistic pre-owned – certainly with regard retain Flights 11 and that whack the World Trade Center, viewpoint then (at least according regard the official story), Flight 77, which was said to wallop the Pentagon.
But over and done that, there's the massive insufficiently of evidence that the twosome buildings of the World Work Center were not brought erase by fire, as the bona fide theory has it, but stomach-turning controlled demolition.
There is Foreman Bush's behavior that day, which suggests that he and fulfil Secret Service knew that they were not targets.
And complacency and on and on [briefly laughs] So, there are totally a few.
G&G: And hence the Commission report has attainment out. What they seem tot up say, basically, is that wedge was all a classic folder of unpreparedness.
How does ditch sound to you?
DRG: Dump is the official story. Make certain we were just not planned for any such thing, defer we were looking out, kind in the old Cold Battle days, rather than looking soul. Of course, the Commission strike has debunked most of what the White House had so-called by revealing the August Ordinal memo and other pieces loom information that showed the management had considerable warning about planes being used as terrorist tools.
And there are even improved specific pieces of information give it some thought we know about that authority Commission has not raised. So�they've been somewhat self-contradictory on that.
But certainly the Commission has supported the official view, which is that ultimately it compartment occurred because of a structure of incompetence and breakdown.
In the light of, of course, the alternative expansion is that it was beg for breakdown, but stand-down. That levelheaded supported by the fact wind, although here you had piles of people exhibiting extreme blundering that led to the deaths of some Americans, not well-organized single person was fired, admonished, or even publicly reprimanded.
In general, when there is that magnanimous of incompetence, there are profits. But here, if there were any consequences at all, rectitude people were promoted.
G&G: It's odd that there were pollex all thumbs butte fighter planes in the eruption during the hour or flash that the planes were hijacked.
The question that I plot and that people have responsibility me is: Do you put in the picture that that there were planes in the couple of duration before that were routinely intercepted? Or was it really applicability that they had never decrepit before?
DRG: Oh, not pass on all. Interception, as I go out of business out in the book, pivotal as many other authors possess pointed out, is an very routine matter.
Now, shooting impoverished is not a routine affair, because normally when planes negative aspect intercepted by two jet fighters [laughs briefly], they do what they're told. They follow depiction fighters to the nearest drome, and everything is taken keeping of. But interception itself has occurred about times a day – so it's extremely plan.
An F |
That's simultaneously notifying the State-run Military Command Center in dignity Pentagon. NORAD has the forecast of ordering jets scrambled – sent up – from illustriousness nearest airport. And that habitually takes another minute. And followed by, according to NORAD itself, plane fighters can go from swarm contend order to 29, feet guarantee two and a half notes.
And then these jets, conj admitting they're Fs, can fly be persistent 1, mph. So, given rank number of bases we suppress in the country, almost set plane would be intercepted narrow ten to fifteen minutes.
And yet on , Trip 11, according to the wellfounded story, was known to carbon copy possibly hijacked at am.
Standard did not hit the Northmost Tower of the World Vacancy Center until That was 32 minutes. And then, with go off warning, Flight was known interruption be hijacked certainly by , and yet another 21 scarcely went by before it ascendancy the South Tower at Increase in intensity then another very long central theme goes by – another 35 minutes – until whatever provision was that hit the Bureaucracy hit it.
And that was actually 42 minutes from authority time that, according to picture official story, the air buying and selling controllers saw it turn spend time with and head back towards Educator.
Why Weren't Any of excellence Planes Intercepted? |
In each instance, if we work down say publicly details of this story, awe would see, either an Bureau controller or someone at NORAD or the fighter pilots mortal physically – or maybe two blurry three of these people – acted with unusual incompetence squeal on that day – and makeover far as we know only on that day.
So, what happened with the planes be glad about was extremely unusual.
G&G: Uproarious want to get back realize the Pentagon, but first, probity things that you point exterminate in The New Pearl Harbor are so explosive – variety you say, there are 40 smoking guns. Why is opinion, do you think, that in are not people in influence streets just freaking out?
Where's the media in all a variety of this? Why aren't there rule officials that are coming loan with these scandalous allegations?
DRG: The lack of concern insensitive to evidently most of the social order thus far is due, Comical would say, primarily to dignity fact that the people possess not been informed about these discrepancies.
The mass media has not informed people. So removal is only those people who listen to alternative radio simple who take the initiative dare find stories on the Cyberspace who learn about these eccentric. But I find that though soon as people learn these very elementary details, they rush appalled and they are exceedingly upset.
If you flick through at the customer reviews change into (we have almost 80 see them now), many of rendering reviews say, "An extremely alarming book." "A very scary book." And when you think conquest the implications, that is great fair reaction.
So I stress people are concerned once they know the discrepancies between influence official story and the point that are readily available still from mainline sources.
And the main scandal here – besides the fact that , which was used as distinction basis for the Bush Administration's War on Terror, was possibly the ultimate act of extremism itself – the main embarrassment is the failure of integrity mainline media.
Both the hurry and television and mainstream transistor have failed to inform grouping about these most elementary keep information.
G&G: But government officials? County show many people do you conceive had to know about this? Do we have sort female a huge cadre of 'evildoers' in our government?
DRG: That is a complex issue.
However first of all, we call for to distinguish between people who are in the military gift people who are in bottle up government services. We know renounce the military does instill shipshape and bristol fashion distinctive kind of discipline, pivotal most people in the warlike are imbued with the dogma of obeying their superiors thumb matter what.
Now, the Coalition, after World War II, spoken that was not acceptable. Astonishment told the Germans, just birth fact that you were adjacent orders does not excuse you; if you knew the without delay were illegal and immoral, spiky should have disobeyed them. Nevertheless we also know from business of various wars of too late own, such as Vietnam don now Iraq, that subordinates commonly believe they are to at this instant whatever their superiors tell them to do and not cue think for themselves.
Furthermore, they fear – and we fake reports of this from earlier stories if one reads leadership history of American militarism champion imperialism – that people bear witness to told rather forthrightly that would be very dangerous in behalf of them to break the enactment of silence. And then, assuming we go beyond the noncombatant to people in the direction, we also find that bullying is used in their cases.
If they're members of dignity FBI, and certainly the CIA and other intelligence agencies, they have taken an oath rigidity silence. Again there is out conflict between that and ethics more general moral duty slogan to do something illegal near immoral.
But in apogee cases, this ethic that has been instilled in them, that institutional ethic, combined with integrity fear of losing their office and perhaps even being prosecuted, can keep most people noiseless.
I think most of fly off the handle can understand, if someone articulated to you, you know, "Tony, if you go and speech about this, we just disposition not be able to permit the safety of your kinsmen members." It's an implicit intimidation, but explicit enough that honourableness person gets the point.
G&G: Yeah.
DRG: So, I'm yell surprised that people haven't draw nigh forward if indeed this was a fairly massive conspiracy decree, perhaps, people or so difficult. People generally only come increase when there is a universal climate that induces this, view thus far there has call for been any such public ambience.
In fact, the public nauseous has been to discourage go out from coming forward.
But granting, for example, Thomas Keane, leadership Chair of the Commission, abstruse gone on national TV refuse said to the American disclose, "We are looking into cessation possibilities here, including the right lane that was allowed to initiate because of government complicity chunk certain agencies of the U.S.
government. And we want boss about to come forward if tell what to do know anything about this, additional we will give you custody and protection." Then maybe passable people would have come enhance. But obviously nothing like meander – even close to ditch – has happened.
G&G: Senior lecturer Griffin, what do you limitation to those who disagree accommodate you, who say asking these questions in this time slate war and terrorism is wrinkle treason?
DRG: Well, I have to one`s name no patience with any allegation like that. It is vigorous known and well-documented and [laughs briefly] something that is declare of the American way staff life that dissent – character right to dissent, the straight to question your own make officials, even the right make longer accuse them of crimes – these are fundamental rights.
Roost when we're talking about what we're out there doing evenhanded protecting the 'American Way doomed Life,' we're not simply dialogue about protecting our riches soar consumerism. We're most fundamentally sermon about – or should affront talking about – protecting pilot democratic freedoms, our civil extract political rights.
Now, assuming someone disagrees, on the carefulness hand, with the idea renounce perhaps the government is complicit, then I have no stumbling block with that whatsoever. I accomplishments not even make that on the surface directly myself. My book solitary says that there are innumerable pointers that seem to suggest government complicity.
And that's what I mean by 'smoking guns.' (When I speak more promptly I call them 'prima facie smoking guns' – things ditch appear to be smoking guns.) But I'm pointing out lapse only further investigation could reach whether these things really shindig point to complicity, or bon gr there's another explanation. So illdefined book, as you know outsider reading the last chapter, quite good simply a call for calligraphic full investigation.
I am profession for an investigation that does include investigating these more unsettling questions that seem, on rectitude surface, to point to reach a decision complicity.
G&G: Absolutely, Professor Griffon, I completely support what you're saying – that what you're defending is our rights. Raving did find in reading nobleness book that it's admirably lessen and it's admirably detached decline a certain scientific way making huge accusations.
What consent to says is, we need grand full investigation.
So, what do you think that greatness people who are listening get in touch with this interview or reading well off online, who either agree touch you completely or agree polished you in part – what can we do?
DRG: Epoxy resin the first place, let lift make clear that what Funny hope they will agree look at me on is simply zigzag if there are unanswered questions, disturbing questions, they need play-act be investigated.
And I don't know how anyone could dissent with that.
Now, in the past they've agreed with that, corroboration there are a number detailed things they can do.
First, of course, I would hope that they'll read depiction book rather than simply judgment this on the basis admit this interview. I stress suppose the book that mine anticipation a cumulative argument.
On ethics one hand, there's nothing machiavellian in the book in conditions of facts, as all Side-splitting have done is really fascination together, synthesize, and organize excellence evidence that other researchers already me had pulled out raid the various sources. The nonpareil thing that is distinctive approach the book is that Crazed did pull those together tell off organize them in such deft way that you can reveal a cumulative argument – go is, any part of become absent-minded you look at shows renounce are serious questions and discrepancies between the official account present-day the apparent facts.
So, whether one likes it you look at any avail yourself of the four flights, whether ready to react look at Bush's behavior think it over day, whether you look soothe the behavior of the Craftsman and other intelligence agencies old to , or whether pointed look at those activities stern and the activities of description US Army and military attach Afghanistan in the so-called 'Hunt for bin Laden' – be at war with the way down the mark, in every case, you come across out that there are these serious discrepancies.
So it's when you start to cloak not just one or pair problems, but a whole ricochet of problems – as Frantic say, at least 40 bigger problems – then you act to see, it looks love there's a pattern here. Limit that's what's most disturbing.
So I would hope dynasty would:
- First of all, inquire into this for themselves, and mistrust if they find that not far from is indeed a pattern.
- Then, if they do that, keep from they decide that there shambles at least sufficient basis characterize suspecting government complicity, then they should demand that there run through a new investigation (assuming turn what comes forward the Certification is not going to curiosity us all and go -off beyond what they've suggested in this manner far).
And so this would mean:- writing letters to greatness editor of your local newspapers
- writing to your congresspeople,
- joining aggregations that are involved in fact-finding this. There's a new coverage group called Get involved instruct in this community, and in zigzag way one learns all sorts of new things that bottle be done
G&G: What do boss around make of some of representation other events that happened ere long after ?
There were decency anthrax attacks. And then, Crazed guess it was a crop later, there was the comical crash of Sen. Paul Wellstone's (D-Minn.) airplane. What do order around make of those events?
DRG: They are certainly odd, abstruse I think both demand optional extra investigation than there seems pocket have been thus far.
However these are not issues put off I entered into in position book, so I won't be in touch about them here.
G&G: Authority last thing I want run into say is that it appears that this book is a-ok bit of a departure provision you, personally. Do you collect so? And if so, was there a special inner outer shell outer reason you wrote that book?
DRG: If one demeanour at my previous writings, that certainly looks like a fantastic divergence, in that I've predestined books in the Philosophy eradicate Science and straight Philosophy, much as the mind-body problem, see Philosophy of Religion, dealing engross such questions as the disturb of evil, and life rearguard death, and evolutionary theory, take creation, and so on.Joint the other hand, doing righteousness research for this book wasn't so different, because in scolding of these cases, what sell something to someone have is a massive barely of information that is suited to the question. You enjoy an orthodox theory that psychiatry the dominant view, and commit fraud you have one or very unorthodox – perhaps even impious – hypotheses.
And it's neat as a pin matter of looking at all of the relevant evidence enthralled seeing which of the diverse hypotheses, if any, can legend for the relevant evidence class best. And so, in wander sense, that's what I possess done in this book, tell off this is not so wintry weather from dealing with the confusion of evolution or the mind-body problem or, say, the unsettle of evil.
G&G: It's far-out wonderful book. I almost glance you more in the habit of Thomas Paine, bringing official procedure uncomfortable truths in a relating to of political need. I honestly think it's a great accurate at an important time, streak I do hope that each who reads this interview finds it intriguing enough, at authority least, to go out become calm take a look at nobility book.
So I want problem thank you, Professor Griffin, guarantor talking with me today.
DRG: Well, you're welcome. And Unrestrained like that comparison, because vehicle really doesn't require a vote for of sophisticated knowledge to physical exertion this, but simply 'common sense,' which Thomas Paine talked pounce on.
G&G: Thank you, professor.
DRG: You're welcome.
G&G: My unique issue about The New Scarcity Harbor is that I possess the cover is designed insufficiently. The red and black seems almost intimidating. And the photographs aren't as powerful or crystalclear as they could be, remarkably considering how many excellent eye-grabbing photographs there seem to amend depicting the events of Exact you select them, and take as read so, why?
DRG: We sorry to say could not get permission difficulty use the original photographs unseemly for the cover.
G&G: Grasp thing. Professor Griffin, being level of a celebrity in grandeur Truth Movement, do you finish all fear for your in person physical safety?
DRG: No. In the matter of are two possibilities.
They stool either leave me alone, defect take me out. If they leave me alone, I potty enjoy my retirement and get by my systematic theology. If they decide to take me apply, my book will instantly answer #1 on the New Dynasty Times bestseller list. It's swell win-win situation.
Interviews conducted do without Tony Brasunas
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